1 Samuel 19

1 Samuel 19

Wiersbe has a very interesting comment - Saul hastened to the place only to be met by the Spirit of God and made to praise the Lord. He took off his outer royal garments and became like any other man, and he lay on the floor before Samuel. This would be their last meeting until that fateful night when Samuel came from the realms of the dead to pass judgment on the king (1 Sam. 28:7ff). But Saul had had a similar experience after Samuel had anointed him king (1Sa 10:9–13), and from it came the proverbial saying, “Is Saul also among the prophets?” After Saul’s experience at Ramah, the proverb was resurrected. These two events prove that a person can have a remarkable religious experience and yet have no change in character. In Saul’s case, both experiences were actually sent by the Lord, but Saul didn’t profit from them. Special religious manifestations aren’t evidences that a person is even saved (Matt. 7:21–23). Judas preached sermons and even performed miracles (Matt. 10:1–8), yet he was not a believer (John 6:67–71; 13:10–11; 17:12), and he betrayed the Lord and ended up committing suicide. Saul, like Judas, had many opportunities to see the Lord’s hand at work, and yet he never had a life-changing experience with the Lord. (Borrow Be successful) Gene Getz on the Spirit coming on Saul and his agents - These are strange events, but they are in harmony with God's love in reaching out to men, no matter what their sins. In fact God was communicating two very important messages. God Was Still Reaching Out to Saul. When the Spirit of God came upon Saul and his men, the Lord was certainly reminding Saul of a very special event earlier in his life. Soon after he was anointed king, “the Spirit of God came upon him mightily, so that he prophesied among” the prophets (1Sa 10:10). The question the people asked at that time was the same question they asked in Ramah: “Is Saul also among the prophets?” (Sa 10:11; 19:24). How could Saul miss the message of this divine intervention? He was not just fighting David—he was fighting God! God was saying, loud and clear, that he was still able to change Saul's heart and life permanently—if only Saul would let Him. God Would Deliver David. The second message was for David: God could and would protect and deliver him from Saul. The Lord visually and dramatically demonstrated this fact. Without God's permission, Saul and his men could not touch David. God was showing David that He would protect him just as He had when David confronted Goliath. Sadly, David missed this message—just as Saul missed the message to him. David's response to God's intervention on his behalf was anything but positive. As we've already noted, when he returned to talk to his friend Jonathan, he was emotionally and spiritually disturbed. His questions reflected confusion, doubt, and tremendous anxiety: “What have I done? “What is my iniquity? “And what is my sin before your father, that he is seeking my life?” (1Sa 20:1). (Borrow David: God's man in faith and failure) Walter Kaiser - go to page 188 in Hard Sayings of the Bible for discussion of the question - How Did Saul Prophesy? Seeking a naturalistic explanation for the phenomenon of prophecy in the Old Testament, some have theorized that such powers derived from ecstatic experiences in which the prophet wandered outside his own consciousness during a period of artistic creation. One of the passages used to sustain such a thesis is 1 Samuel 19:19–24. Quite apart from the issue of ecstasy in prophecy are two other matters. Could a king also be a prophet? And did the king really strip off all his clothes as a result of this powerful experience of prophesying? The story told here is clear enough. In a jealous rage over David’s popularity and success, Saul was bent on capturing David. No doubt rumors were now spreading that Samuel had anointed David as king in place of the then-reigning Saul. Saul sent three different groups of messengers to apprehend David, who had fled from Saul to join Samuel at his prophetic school at Ramah. All three groups encountered Samuel’s band of prophets prophesying. And each of the groups of messengers began to prophesy as well. At last Saul had had enough and decided to go in search of David himself. While he was still on the way, however, the “Spirit of God” came on him; so he too prophesied. Later, after coming to where the others were, he removed some of his clothing and lay in an apparent stupor the rest of that day and the following night. Each of the three problems raised by this text deserves some response based on the meaning of certain words used in this context and other similar contexts. It has been claimed that the Greeks thought artistic genius was always accompanied by a degree of madness; thus, those who prophesied must have similarly experienced “ecstasy”—a word literally meaning “to stand apart from or outside oneself.” Furthermore, it was argued that the behavior of the Canaanite prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel was just like that of earlier Israelite prophets. But the verb to prophesy, as used in this context, does not mean “to act violently” or “to be mad.” The Old Testament makes a clear distinction between the prophets of Canaan and those under the inspiration of God. Only three Old Testament passages have been used as evidence that prophesying entailed a temporary madness and standing apart from oneself. These three passages, however, record the estimates of others rather than God’s estimates of prophets and the source of their inspiration. In 2 Kings 9:11, a young prophet sent by Elisha to anoint Jehu as king is called a “madman” (mešugā˒) by the soldiers who are sitting in Jehu’s barracks. Their label is hardly a statement from God or a source of normative teaching. The Bible simply records that that is what these men thought of prophets—an attitude not altogether dissimilar from that held today by some about the clergy. A second text, Jeremiah 29:26, quotes a certain Shemaiah, then captive in Babylon, from a letter where he too opines: “Every man that is mad [mešugā˒] makes himself a prophet” (my translation). In the final text, Hosea 9:7, Hosea characterizes a point in Israel’s thinking by saying, “The prophet is considered a fool, the inspired man a maniac [mešugā˒].” None of these three texts demonstrates that the verb to prophesy legitimately carries the connotation of madness. Instead, they simply show that many associated prophecy with madness in an attempt to stigmatize the work of real prophets. It was the ancient equivalent of the Elmer Gantry image of Christian ministers today! As for Saul’s being “naked” all day and night, the term used might just as well refer to his being partially disrobed. It seems to be used with the latter meaning in Job 22:6, 24:7, Isaiah 58:7 and probably Isaiah 20:2–3, where Isaiah is said to have walked “stripped and barefoot for three years.” Saul probably stripped off his outer garment, leaving only the long tunic beneath. The figure of speech involved here is synecdoche, in which the whole stands for a part. Thus, naked or stripped is used to mean “scantily clad” or “poorly clothed.” In an attempt to shore up the failing theory of ecstasy, some have pointed to 1 Samuel 19:24 as evidence that Saul was “beside himself”—again, the etymology of our word ecstasy. However, this will not work since the verb in verse 24 simply means “to put off” a garment (by opening it and unfolding it; the verb’s other meaning is “to expand, to spread out, to extend”). There is no evidence that it means “to stand beside oneself” or anything like that. What about the apparent stupor? Did Saul momentarily lose his sanity? While the three groups of messengers experienced a strong influence of the Spirit of God, it was Saul, we may rightfully conclude, who fell under the strongest work of the Spirit. The Spirit fell more powerfully on Saul than on the messengers because Saul had more stubbornly resisted the will of God. In this manner, God graciously warned Saul that he was kicking against the very will of God, not just against a shepherd-boy rival. The overmastering influence that came on Saul was to convince him that his struggle was with God and not with David. His action in sending the three groups to capture David had been in defiance of God himself, so he had to be graphically warned. As a result, the king also, but unexpectedly, prophesied. So surprised were all around them that a proverb subsequently arose to characterize events that ran against ordinary expectations: “Is Saul also among the prophets?” (1 Sam 19:24). Kings normally did not expect to receive the gift of prophecy. But here God did the extraordinary in order to move a recalcitrant king’s heart to see the error of his ways. The noun prophecy and verb to prophesy appear more than three hundred times in the Old Testament. Often outbursts of exuberant praise or of deep grief were connected with prophesying. But there seems to be no evidence for ecstasy as wild, uncontrollable enthusiasm that forced the individual to go temporarily mad or insane. And if we dilute the meaning of ecstasy so as to take away the negative implications—like those attached to the Greek’s theory that artists only drew, composed or wrote when temporarily overcome with madness—the term becomes so bland that it loses its significance. In that case we all might qualify to join the band of the prophets. Certainly nothing in this text suggests the dancing, raving and loss of consciousness sometimes seen in contemporary extrabiblical phenomena. See also comment on “When the Prophets Say, ‘The Word of the Lord Came to Me,’ What Do They Mean?” and DANIEL 12:8–10. Gleason Archer - - go to page 184 in The Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties for the discussion of the topic - First Samuel 19:23–24 states of King Saul that “the spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied.… And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner.” Why did he prophesy naked? The passage beginning with v. 19 indicates that Saul was in pursuit of his son-in-law, young David, and that David had gotten to Naioth in Ramah. Saul was informed that David was there with the prophets who had been trained for the Lord’s service under Samuel. So he sent his agents up to arrest David and to bring him down in chains. When the king’s agents got there, however, and saw the august figure of Samuel himself and his prophetic assistants all engaged in a joyous praise service before the Lord, they too came under the influence of the Holy Spirit. Unable to control themselves or carry out the business for which they had been sent, they could do nothing else but surrender to the same emotional excitement and join in the songs and shouts of adoration before the Lord. By that time they felt utterly unable to perform their mission, and they had to return to Saul empty-handed. After the same thing had happened to two other teams of soldiers whom Saul sent up to Samuel’s group, Saul finally resolved to carry out his mission himself. Until then he had hung back, hoping to avoid confrontation with Samuel, with whom he had had a complete falling out after the episode at Gilgal (1 Sam. 15:17–35), where Samuel had announced that Saul had been rejected by God from the kingship. Saul did not relish the prospect of facing that fearsome prophet again, but he felt there was no alternative. Also, Saul was subject to manic depression and given to extreme changes of mood (cf. 1 Sam. 16:14–23; 18:10–11; 19:9). As he came near the praise service over which Samuel was presiding, Saul found himself coming under the spell of the excitement of the occasion; and he could not control himself. He too began to sing, shout, and dance along with the prophets themselves. (Somewhat similar cases have been reported at camp meetings during the Great Awakening in America in 1740 under George Whitefield and in 1800 at the revival meetings held in Kentucky.) Such an overpowering sense of the presence, power, and glory of God came over this wicked king that he recalled his earlier revival experience near Bethel (1 Sam. 10:5–6, 10), when he had first been called to the throne; an he succumbed to the same excitement again. Unlike the other worshipers, Saul became so carried away with his enthusiasm that he stripped off his clothes as he shouted and danced, and he finally collapsed exhausted on the ground and lay there in a stupor or trance the rest of the day and all through the night (1 Sam. 19:24). Undoubtedly this humiliation came on him as a divine judgment because in his heart he was radically opposed to the will of God, insofar as it went counter to his own ambition. Norman Geisler - go to page 150 in When Critics Ask for discussion of 1 SAMUEL 19:23–24—How could it be said that the Spirit of God was upon Saul when God had already rejected him? PROBLEM: When Saul came to Naioth in Ramah to try to capture David, he sent soldiers up to bring David back in chains. When his soldiers came back empty-handed, Saul decided to go up himself. However, when he came near to Naioth, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him and he danced and prophesied before Samuel. How could it be said that the Spirit of God was upon Saul when God had already rejected him? SOLUTION: The Spirit of the Lord was not upon Saul at this time in the same way that the Spirit of the Lord was upon him before his rejection. Originally, the Spirit came upon Saul to minister through him. On this occasion the Spirit came upon him to resist his evil intentions. In this incident, Saul’s intent was to capture and ultimately kill David, but Saul was unwilling to chance a face-to-face encounter with the prophet Samuel. Twice Saul sent messengers to capture David and bring him back in chains, but each time the Spirit of the Lord overcame them so that they were unable to accomplish their task. Finally, Saul went up himself. However, when he came near to Naioth, the Spirit of the Lord overcame him so that he could not control himself. He danced and prophesied until he fell exhausted on the ground. The Spirit of the Lord overcame Saul and thwarted his efforts to capture David. 1 Samuel 19:24 He also stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Therefore they say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" BGT 1 Samuel 19:24 καὶ ἐξεδύσατο τὰ ἱμάτια αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐπροφήτευσεν ἐνώπιον αὐτῶν καὶ ἔπεσεν γυμνὸς ὅλην τὴν ἡμέραν ἐκείνην καὶ ὅλην τὴν νύκτα διὰ τοῦτο ἔλεγον εἰ καὶ Σαουλ ἐν προφήταις LXE 1 Samuel 19:24 And he took off his clothes, and prophesied before them; and lay down naked all that day and all that night: therefore they said, Is Saul also among the prophets? KJV 1 Samuel 19:24 And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets? NET 1 Samuel 19:24 He even stripped off his clothes and prophesied before Samuel. He lay there naked all that day and night. (For that reason it is asked, "Is Saul also among the prophets?") CSB 1 Samuel 19:24 Saul then removed his clothes and also prophesied before Samuel; he collapsed and lay naked all that day and all that night. That is why they say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" ESV 1 Samuel 19:24 And he too stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay naked all that day and all that night. Thus it is said, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" NIV 1 Samuel 19:24 He stripped off his robes and also prophesied in Samuel's presence. He lay that way all that day and night. This is why people say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" NLT 1 Samuel 19:24 He tore off his clothes and lay naked on the ground all day and all night, prophesying in the presence of Samuel. The people who were watching exclaimed, "What? Is even Saul a prophet?" NRS 1 Samuel 19:24 He too stripped off his clothes, and he too fell into a frenzy before Samuel. He lay naked all that day and all that night. Therefore it is said, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" NJB 1 Samuel 19:24 He too stripped off his clothes and he too fell into a frenzy in Samuel's presence, then collapsed naked on the ground for the rest of that day and all night. Hence the saying: Is Saul one of the prophets too? NAB 1 Samuel 19:24 he, too, stripped himself of his garments and he, too, remained in the prophetic state in the presence of Samuel; all that day and night he lay naked. That is why they say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" YLT 1 Samuel 19:24 and he strippeth off -- he also -- his garments, and prophesieth -- he also -- before Samuel, and falleth down naked all that day and all the night; therefore they say, 'Is Saul also among the prophets?' stripped: 2Sa 6:14,20 Isa 20:2 Mic 1:8 lay: Heb. fell, Nu 24:4 Is Saul: 1Sa 10:10-12 Ac 9:21 1 Samuel 19 Resources - Multiple Sermons and Commentaries Related Passages: 1 Samuel 10:10-12+ When they came to the hill there, behold, a group of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him mightily, so that he prophesied among them. 11 It came about, when all who knew him previously saw that he prophesied now with the prophets, that the people said to one another, “What has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?” 12 A man there said, “Now, who is their father?” Therefore it became a proverb: “Is Saul also among the prophets?” SAUL PROPHESIED AND STRIPPED NAKED He also stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied (naba; Lxx = propheteuo) before Samuel and lay down naked all that day and all that night - Saul's removal of his royal garments and laying prostrate seems to speak of the LORD humbling Saul, who would not humble himself! Some say Saul was not completely naked but just down to his inner garments. While that may be true, the word naked (arom) is used to describe physical nudity as in Ge 2:25. Most of the translations render it "naked." In short God held Saul prostrate all day and all night giving David time to flee Naioth (see 1Sa 20:2) This is a strange passage and difficult to fully understand. What is clear in the context is that in some way God was protecting David through Saul's prophesying and clearly giving him the opportunity to escape. It is interesting that there is no record of David himself prophesying. While Saul prophesied before Samuel, there is no record of a meaning